Redline's...umm...Redline build.

[REDLINE]

*EDIT* It seems all my pictures hosted on WVM were deleted for some reason so I have none to show you for the next few pictures. I will start uploading all my pictures to a different server to ensure I don't lose them again. Pics start below with the clutch install.*/EDIT*

This thread will probably become overloaded with pictures and words over the next month or so. Bear in mind if you don't have cable net or at least dial up, you're probably best off to just look at it from someone's computer who does lol. I'll start with a few details about the more complicated stuff I need to do and fill in the little things as I go.

In short I have finally settled on a turbo, fuel pump, piping route, tuning software, and horsepower goals. I also need to convert my returnless fuel system to a return style. I decided to go with a Borg Warner Airwerks S200 mainly because of it's twin scroll design which gives me several advantages over just a standard ball bearing turbo. First off the twin scroll design allows for me to split the exhaust pulses and decrease spool time by a huge margin over a standard turbo. The decrease in exhaust pressure also helps in using a smaller wastegate spring to keep the wastegates closed, which is helpful for the MSD LBC solenoids to modulate boost pressure on the launch. Also it means I don't have to run CO2 to keep them closed and modulate with the solenoids. The downside to this means I have to build my own manifold, which is not a problem really since I can use pretty standard steel to do it with as the twin scroll design will also lower EGTs. Having full race make me a custom manifold I found out runs an easy $2,500 and at least a month. Here are some crude pictures of the routing for header to the turbo:

Above I have circled the brake/clutch fluid resovoir (yes they share the same one), the fuse/relay box and PCM, the brake module, and the coolant overflow tank. The coolant overflow tank will end up on the other side of the engine here:

The fluid resovoir will be relocated all the way against the driver's side strut tower. The fusebox is going to go where the coolant overflow was. The PCM will be relocated to behind where the fusebox is sitting right now, all the way against the firewall. The brake module will then be moved over about 6 inches to your visual left, then down about a foot and mounted to the front driver's side frame rail, similar to where the air filter sits now. After having moved all that there is TONS of room between the transmission and the hood and the driver's strut tower and the head. But why you ask? To make room for the turbo....

Like I said it's a pretty crude drawing right now, but you get the idea. Basically the manifold runners will curve out from the engine in clean sweeps and head up over the valve cover (there's plenty of room) then a somewhat steep down then up curve into the bottom of the turbine housing with the two wastegates mounted right there below the turbine inlet housing. The turbine housing will exit with 3" piping down below back towards where the factory 2.75" downpipe is running now. The turbo's intake piping will run down back behind the transmission and towards the ground. The charge piping will run pretty much straight out from the front of the turbo's outlet facing the front of the car and down through the fender well to the inlet of the intercooler. Then from out of the intercooler it will pass into the passenger fenderwell, around behind the radiator, and curve up into the throttle body/custom sheet metal intake manifold. There is so much room between the block and radiator because GM had to make room for the blower and the huge ass intake manifold that has the intercooler for the heat exchanger built into it. It's a big boy.

Just to give you somewhat of an idead as to how much room the fusebox/PCM actually takes up, not including the brackets and such that space it about 6" up from the transmission.

Modifying a return style fuel rail from an older ECOtec engine. The inlet needs to be cut, drilled, and tapped for a huge ass -8AN fitting. Don't worry, that whole fuel rail isn't that small the whole way through. The over all inner diameter is about as big around as the pressed in plug in the end of the rail. Can you see the two different colored metals? The darker looking one will be drilled out completely.

Pre-turbo clutch install. Instigated by the 7/19 Mo-town meet haha:

Abused stock flywheel, resurfaced stock flywheel. Any questions? I am sticking with the stock flywheel because driving on the hills or Morgantown sucks with a lightweight flywheel and lots of torque lol.
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m69/SAIORELI/Redline/DSCF0005.jpg

The SPEC Stage 4 clutch. Sooo beautiful, soooo light. The only one that will hold more than 400ft.lbs. for my car, and I was making 350ft.lbs. on the stock clutch before the turbo even went on. Yikes!
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m69/SAIORELI/Redline/DSCF0008.jpg

For s-n-g's here is the car's subframe in the front. This whole thing only weighs about 120lbs.
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m69/SAIORELI/Redline/DSCF0006.jpg

And good old GM forgot to put a bolt in that holds my bellhousing to my engine. AWESOME! In their defense, this is literally among the FIRST batch of redlines (One of only about 80 made in the first 3 months of production) released, so some flaws are understandable but a missing bolt? Come on.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m69/SAIORELI/Redline/DSCF1905.jpg

The correct .83 divided housing finally showed up for the S258 last week. Now I have a turbo I can actually spool well instead of the 1.15 they sent me. By the way, know anyone that needs a 1.15 housing for their S258/256? Lol.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m69/SAIORELI/Redline/DSCF0035.jpg

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m69/SAIORELI/Redline/DSCF0036.jpg

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m69/SAIORELI/Redline/DSCF0034.jpg

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m69/SAIORELI/Redline/DSCF0037.jpg

[OneFastWrxSPB]

Good luck man

[TarmacSTi]

Okay, so why did you put a wing and vinyl on your car?


































Dude, I'm kidding. f*cking relax. ;)

[Warriorblaze]

Looks like you have a pretty good plan. Too bad you're in Motown, I'd like to see it come together.

[rebel_dragon69]

Gee, that will be one slow car. I'll have fun beating you. LOL Im sure some people are gonna be giving you a call after this is completed and word gets around

[REDLINE]

Someone actually found a picture pretty similar of what I'm going to do:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/joelspy70/IMG_0148.jpg

[The Lobster]

thats the sidewinder manifold i was telling you about!

alot of companies make it for a good price for a honda:)

99% of honda K swaps or Ks use that manifold.

[no1sirbutler]

thats the sidewinder manifold i was telling you about!

alot of companies make it for a good price for a honda:)

99% of honda K swaps or Ks use that manifold.

also has one key component that he doesnt!!!!





































a honda engine.

[The Lobster]

^ha
no i was talking to him today and he was telling me about how he ordered his manifold already. I asked him what kind and he tried to explain it to me. He said his exhaust is near teh fire wall so he had to have a manifold that supports a turbo away from the manifold.

i said so like a side winder manifold, he said no but i think he was confused on what i meant since i was talking honda k motors and how its off to the side.

[REDLINE]

No no, I didn't order a manifold lol. I have to make one. I tried to find someone making one but the only ones are bullshit cast iron logs that do shit for spool on a big ass turbo lol.

But yes Sher that is kinda like what I'm going for.

[The Lobster]

^ya i meant make one:0

cause i was like WOW! when you told me you were going to make it...

but i wonder

if you could buy one of those side winders thats for honda cause there are plenty and cost a fraction of 2800...

but anyways point being buy one of those for honda and adapt it to a saturn flange?

[REDLINE]

It wouldn't even come close to fitting lol.

[The Lobster]

man after looking at your bay again you have SUPER tight clearance there....

sts turbo!

[Chizzle]

To0 bad your up there...id love to help out with that...

[Ntense90crxsi]

No no, I didn't order a manifold lol. I have to make one. I tried to find someone making one but the only ones are bullshit cast iron logs that do shit for spool on a big ass turbo lol.

But yes Sher that is kinda like what I'm going for.

Actually a log manifold will spool a big turbo much better then the sidewinder design. I would probably go with a log for the simple fact of 1) It would spool better 2) You wouldn't have to relocate everything and putting it back to stock if need be would be much easier. 3) You wouldn't have to worry about the manifold cracking, thats the biggest pain in the ass with a turbo car and a tubular manifold. The car won't make as much power with a log but if you get a good size turbo it won't matter too much because the cfm to make power will be there regardless. In my opinion 20-40hp is not worth all the headaches that will come with the sidewinder design. The turbo will be capable of whatever your goals are with the log it just may take a extra 2-4 psi.

[Impact240sx]

Actually a log manifold will spool a big turbo much better then the sidewinder design. I would probably go with a log for the simple fact of 1) It would spool better 2) You wouldn't have to relocate everything and putting it back to stock if need be would be much easier. 3) You wouldn't have to worry about the manifold cracking, thats the biggest pain in the ass with a turbo car and a tubular manifold. The car won't make as much power with a log but if you get a good size turbo it won't matter too much because the cfm to make power will be there regardless. In my opinion 20-40hp is not worth all the headaches that will come with the sidewinder design. The turbo will be capable of whatever your goals are with the log it just may take a extra 2-4 psi.

Agreed 100%

[REDLINE]

Sorry guys, there's a reason I'm going this way. If I decide to go with the BWA S400 down the road, all I gotta do is change the flange. The S400 will not fit behind the motor without moving the whole motor forward and using a different transmission no way, no how. Not to mention...how many people do you see using logs on a 2.0L to try and spool a GT40R (the equivalent of the S400)? Lol.

[Ntense90crxsi]

Its your car man, all we can do is lend friendly advice. What is your hp goal?

[REDLINE]

550whp or bust. Been my goal since before I even had the car in the state lol.

And I appreciate the advice. I have always gone with logs too, but after going over and over and over it I have decided this is the best way to go for what I want to do. The split pulses should offer the sameresponse as a nice toasty log style.

[Ntense90crxsi]

Thats cool, well good luck with everything, its not going to be easy but once its done it should be a impressive setup. Kudos to you for the challenge you are about to overcome. :good:

[REDLINE]

Haha yeah I got a long ass couple months ahead of me. I figure I'll have a week in building the manifold as it is.

[dastinker8]

get everything cleared out then find some cardboard tubing, simliar to whats on a paper towel roll. Get it all cut out how you want it and taped together, you can buy premade colectors and header maker kits. Also purchase your flange. Then after you have all that take all your piping to a chop saw and start hackin away. Once all the pieces are made and labeld, tack weld what you can and label the rest, then take it to someone who does good tig welding and WAAALAA you have a manifold. They actually sell a manifold design lego type kit for a shit load of money. but ive seen the alternative method using lots of paper towel rolls and tape. If you need some help let me know.
Brian

[dastinker8]

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wNjg1ODcwNnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpghttp:// (http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wNjg1ODcwNnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg)


http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst-57487340749362_1987_1071825

http://store.racing-solutions.org/bendkits.html
they have descent prices on header build kits.
then all you need is a flange, chopsaw and welder.

i highly recoment doing the cardboard header first or else youll waste alot of time and money and steel.

[REDLINE]

Also found these:

http://www.pro-werks.com/images/parts/05/034/048/lg_main.jpg

I'm actually in the middle of signing up for a 6-week sheet metal/thin metals TIG welding class. I've got the MIG down, but I know it won't do strong enough stuff for this. I knew I wasn't just going to be able to jump into this, but it's something I want under my belt also.

I've also been looking at decently priced welders. Any you can recommend?

[SMOKE]

Miller all the way!!

[dastinker8]

yeah those doughnuts are nice, i have a instructional type video on tig welding and working with tubing. there like an hour long each. Very helpful. Ive been looking into getting a welder myself. Brand name obviously everyone is gonna say to get but there super expensive. The one im looking to get i want to be able to do aluminum also, but a tig that can do ac/dc are min. 900 bucks for a cheaper jap. welder. So i think im set on getting a mig with a spool gun so i can switch between aluminum and stainless. Its the Clarke 135sg. They also have the Clarke 185SG but its a 220 and my house is very usupportive, plus i like to take it places to help people out. The 135sg ive found for basically 550 bucks for everything. IF you dont care about aluminum, then the cheaper tig brand that ive heard of that everyone is using is from SmileyTools. Its a cheaper jap welder with no foot control, but from what i read there is a way to incorperate one into it. There are a couple other ones on ebay i see but havent really heard much on those tigs. I was actually gonna get one until i found out it wouldnt do AC. Also if your looking at getting a cheap tig then you gotta watch out for the scratch start ones, From what ive been reading is there a pain in the ass and youll find yourself grinding down the tungston alot. What you wanna look for is one with a HF(high frequency)Start.

A mig will do manifolds just as strong, the downside to using a mig on making a manifold is the handle piece is so big you cant get in into smaller spaces to make nice uniform welds all the way around. Tigs you can get adjustable size tungstons and heads to get into super tight spots. I really wanted a tig but just dont have the money right now for the one i want. So a descent priced mig that will do stainless and alumin with a big ass handled spool gun is what im going for :smile:

[REDLINE]

Miller all the way!!

That's what I've always heard but them shits are expensive lol. I'm looking to use this thing like 10 times. Maybe I can use the company card and do a business expense :-)

[no1sirbutler]

lincoln is another decent mig i have had a couple but i love millers, they are unstoppable.


and btw i have 2 migs, a tig, and a plasma cutter. LOL

[REDLINE]

I think I'm going to end up mig welding the layout and make it structural then have a friend who's a tech in a coal mine take it and have it tigged together professionally. These guys weld like 6" steel all day lol. They gotta have some good shit. That appears to be the most cost effective/least time consuming way to do it in my mind.

[Warriorblaze]

I think I'm going to end up mig welding the layout and make it structural then have a friend who's a tech in a coal mine take it and have it tigged together professionally. These guys weld like 6" steel all day lol. They gotta have some good shit. That appears to be the most cost effective/least time consuming way to do it in my mind.
Welding tubing for a manifold and welding structural steel are 2 very different things. Most structural stuff is stick welding. I know guys who can stick weld, but couldnt mig or tig to save their life. Might want to take it to a fab shop.

[REDLINE]

these are the same guys that build their own like 6" exhausts and intakes and turbo manifolds for their diesel trucks and stuff. ive seen the work, id for sure trust them and i dont trust ANYONE touching my car or anything on it but me lol. he said they usually use this like $18,000 gas powered (< idk?) arc welder the size of a porta-john to do their stuff. lol word for word. im just basically going to tack each joint in place with like 2 or 3 small tacks to hold it and take it to him for the day.

[SMOKE]

If I was in your shoes I would tac it up with a mig and then have some tig it for you. TRUST a mig will not hold up for what you are doing unless you brace it like crazy. Having all that weight out to the side like that and then vibration and bumps in the road = cracks. Please save yourself the headache and have that thing tig'd or you will regret it!!!!! You may want to get a thck wall tubing too, just my $0.02. (Sch 20 or so)

[REDLINE]

Well I FINALLY ordered my S285 today. It's a little bigger than the S265 I had originally planned on, but it can also make more power. :-) Surprisingly the company was open on Sundays until 6pm PST. It will go out tomorrow. Should be here by Friday. I guess I know what I'm doing next weekend :yahoo:

All this racing over the weekend has got me all revved up haha.

[DonoftheFamily]

Miller all the way!!

X12345!!!!...
I have a miller 180 its a 220 mig and the best small welder I have ever used.I picked it up at a pawn shop. got it for $300 with a cart.

[SMOKE]

X12345!!!!...
I have a miller 180 its a 220 mig and the best small welder I have ever used.I picked it up at a pawn shop. got it for $300 with a cart.

Damn you stole that!!! lol :good:
I bought a Lincoln sp180 7 years ago for 350!!!!

[justchil]

I think someone mentioned it... but if I were you I'd document all your measurements or "blueprint" if possible... you might be able to recoup some $$$ by selling the plans or building kits... just an idea.

[REDLINE]

Yeah I will be documenting this, but the amount of modifications needed to execute this build are more than some people think it's worth. Almost everyone in that community is looking for straight bolt on stuff or they build it themselves. The second the instructions would say to relocate the fusebox, pcm, coolant resovoir, brake cylinder, etc I think it would turn 99.9% of them away.

[REDLINE]

Can I get one of the mods to clean this thread up of any non-relevant build progress? Thank you. I'll make a seperate call out thread for BFlaker, should he accept the challenge.

[Bflaker]

Can I get one of the mods to clean this thread up of any non-relevant build progress? Thank you. I'll make a seperate call out thread for BFlaker, should he accept the challenge.

I'll race ya.

NA vs. NA :rofl: Just pull your serpentine belt off for the race.

You know I'm just giving you a hard time Chris. Sometimes I come across as an asshole, but just ask Scott, or Jason, or Chris Chase, or Jared.........I'm just a smartass.

[REDLINE]

I'll race ya.

NA vs. NA :rofl: Just pull your serpentine belt off for the race.


Fine then, you have to unhook your VTEC solenoid, hahaha.

[QuickSilverZ06]

Fine then, I'll remove 4 spark plug wires. Or ground G105 :rofl:

[REDLINE]

First post updated!

[urnotfast]

call cody loveland at lovefab and see how much he wants to build you a manifold. if you dont know about him check out the one off turbo kits he builds for nsx's. his quality is top notch and so is his pricing but it will be better than anything you can take a class and put together yourself. he is well known for making the same kind of manifolds that you need "sidewinders"

[REDLINE]

Thanks Eric, but I am going to mock up my own manifolds (intake and exhaust) with a MIG by tack welding in structural points, then a senior guy down at Wilson Works will finish weld them and send them off to be pressure tested. You have to start somwhere you know?

Plus that would be CRAZY expensive to have someone else do it because it will be a one offed piece that will be next to impossible to sell on a retail basis because of all the stuff that needs to be moved in order to accomodate it.

[justchil]

I still have all your pictures... if it's not too late I can upload them back to where they were. I'm in the process of transferring the old pictures over to the new gallery system.

[urnotfast]

wilson works is good! my buddy runs their water jet. they did some welding for me on a few things and the welds looked A+

[REDLINE]

I still have all your pictures... if it's not too late I can upload them back to where they were. I'm in the process of transferring the old pictures over to the new gallery system.

Andy that would be AWESOME! Lol.

[The Lobster]

it amazes me how fast you work:)

[urnotfast]

he is quick and does good work........... i always drag my feet but im usually fucked up too!

[The Lobster]

he is quick and does good work........... i always drag my feet but im usually fucked up too!

he does do good work and all you do is laugh in the corner!!!

[REDLINE]

Page 1 has been updated for the turbo!!!

[St_Evo]

Looks good..that thing should run pretty good when your all done!

[REDLINE]

Thanks man. I hope to find the time in the next month or so to get everything pretty much buttoned up.

[The Lobster]

balla! you are still making your own manifold right?

i want to see how that goes:)

[REDLINE]

Yes sir. Gotta start somwhere you know? No one else is going to make me a manifold without actually having the car there. And no one else is going to do it for the price I am:

FREE!!! :-)